Refer To Actor By First Name
Refer To Actor By First Name
yankeefan7
Broadway Legend Joined: 4/14/12
#1Refer To Actor By First Name
Posted: 4/21/19 at 7:29pm
One small gripe I have is when people refer to actors (mostly female) in threads by their first name only. Since most of us on this board do not know these actors, I think it is proper to refer to them by either their full name or have title in name (exp. Ms Osnes). I believe when you read any critical review you will see title next to the name of the actor. Maybe I am just being picky, but IMO I think it is also a matter of respect.
tirecage
Chorus Member Joined: 11/9/13
#2Refer To Actor By First Name
Posted: 4/21/19 at 7:34pm
Seriously?!
You called it yourself. You're being too picky. This is a message board, not a formal review. Get over yourself, and have several seats, please.
getupngo
Featured Actor Joined: 1/22/19
#3Refer To Actor By First Name
Posted: 4/21/19 at 9:37pm
what is this the 1950s? LOL way to give away your age there 
dramamama611
Broadway Legend Joined: 12/4/07
#4Refer To Actor By First Name
Posted: 4/21/19 at 9:54pm
I think thats a VERY old fashioned notion. Especially when talking amongst ourselves. Long gone are the days of being so formal.
They're actors, not the Pope.
If we're not having fun, then why are we doing it?
These are DISCUSSION boards, not mutual admiration boards. Discussion only occurs when we are willing to hear what others are thinking, regardless of whether it is alignment to our own thoughts.
yankeefan7
Broadway Legend Joined: 4/14/12
#5Refer To Actor By First Name
Posted: 4/21/19 at 9:54pm
" Seriously?!
You called it yourself. You're being too picky. This is a message board, not a formal review. Get over yourself, and have several seats, please. Seriously?!
You called it yourself. You're being too picky. This is a message board, not a formal review. Get over yourself, and have several seats, please. "
No problem. I hope you reply the same way when people carry on when some posters don't always use proper grammar or punctuation in a post. This has been the subject of a couple of threads on this board.
yankeefan7
Broadway Legend Joined: 4/14/12
#6Refer To Actor By First Name
Posted: 4/21/19 at 9:57pm
" I think thats a VERY old fashioned notion. Especially when talking amongst ourselves. Long gone are the days of being so formal.
They're actors, not the Pope. I think thats a VERY old fashioned notion. Especially when talking amongst ourselves. Long gone are the days of being so formal.
They're actors, not the Pope. "
Yes it is old fashioned and just my opinion. I was brought up that way and will not change. To each their own.
yankeefan7
Broadway Legend Joined: 4/14/12
#7Refer To Actor By First Name
Posted: 4/21/19 at 9:58pm
" what is this the 1950s? LOL way to give away your age there"
Yes I am old and darn proud of it - lol.
tirecage
Chorus Member Joined: 11/9/13
#8Refer To Actor By First Name
Posted: 4/21/19 at 10:13pmPS - Angela, Audra, and Patti send their regards, yankeefan. (Was my grammar correct?)
#9Refer To Actor By First Name
Posted: 4/21/19 at 10:26pm
yankeefan7 said: "" what is this the 1950s? LOL way to give away your age there"
Yes I am old and darn proud of it - lol."
Ha you should be in bed now gramps
"Anything you do, let it it come from you--then it will be new."
Sunday in the Park with George
#10Refer To Actor By First Name
Posted: 4/21/19 at 10:42pm
Wow. Such disproportionately vicious responses. The OP raised this concern pretty respectfully, with a moderate tone. It's not like they called people "inconsiderate a-holes" for using first names.
For the record, I am in my 20s, and I actually agree with the OP.
I think the OP is right to point out that it's not always clear who the person is just by the first name. Especially with common first names like "Laura" (is it Osnes? Benanti? Michelle Kelly? Donnelly? etc.). And even if there's only one person who it could refer to, it isn't always easy to recall things like that based on a first name, because last names tend to be more distinctive. For example, if someone said they really hope "Michael" gets a Tony nomination for Best Actor - sure, there's only one Michael eligible, but it's such a common name that I would really have to take a second to think about which contender is named Michael. But if they said "Urie" or "Michael Urie" I immediately know who they're talking about.
I also see the OP's point about respect. Using first names makes it sound like you're talking about a buddy from work. Using last names makes it sound like you're talking about an artist, or a public figure. I admit I don't always adhere to that rule (I'd be lying if I said I never mentioned how much I love "Bernadette" or "Patti". But I also don't think the OP is wrong to point it out.
#11Refer To Actor By First Name
Posted: 4/21/19 at 10:51pm
I agree with you, yankeefan7.
Using only the first name reads as though the writer has a delusional personal relationship with artist. I suppose the outrage to your post comes from the inability of those who disagree with you to accept they don't actually know these people.
This "old fashioned" notion is the way respected periodicals refer to artists in print... today!
Funny thing about hostile and immature youth... they act as if they have no intention of getting older, as those they are ignorant of the FACT that it will happen .. IS happening.. to them. I wish them well in their effort to stay frozen physically ( and mentally) in time. I suppose aspiring to evolving and maturation in the experience of being human is - to them - an "old fashioned" notion.
Ah well.. the folly of youth.
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people. - Eleanor Roosevelt
Updated On: 4/21/19 at 10:51 PM
saxpower
Featured Actor Joined: 9/14/16
#12Refer To Actor By First Name
Posted: 4/21/19 at 10:53pm
One slightly different take on this- there are times only a first name has been used and I don't recognize it immediately. I recognize "Patti," "Audra", "Bernadette", and the like but something like "Gina Claire" (as in Ginna Claire Mason in discussions of Wicked cast changes [using this as a potential example only, not saying it was actually used]) isn't something that immediately rings a bell with me, and I'd assume others as well.
smidge
Broadway Legend Joined: 5/16/06
#13Refer To Actor By First Name
Posted: 4/21/19 at 11:01pmYou don’t have license to call them by their first name!
#14Refer To Actor By First Name
Posted: 4/21/19 at 11:17pm
I understand both sides of this argument, and I honestly just think it's part of the changing landscape of theater.
These days, performers are a lot more interactive with the theatergoing public; be it at stage door, over social media, etc. And while fans are by no means friends with these performers, the relationships are different than they were ten, twenty years ago. Many of them are no longer distant, untouchable "celebrities." There's a new level of interaction that may make people feel awkward when referring to someone, or being referred to, by their last name, especially when the performer is on the younger side as well. I have several friends in the business who have even expressed discomfort when being referred to as "Ms. so-and-so" because it feels too rigid or old fashioned for them! Though I'm sure there are others who feel the opposite.
In a formal setting, such as a review or interview, absolutely, last names and/or titles should be used. But in a friendlier setting or in a message board like this filled with casual conversation, I don't think there's much harm or disrespect in using a first name.
(This is coming from someone who works in the industry, not just a fan perspective).
#15Refer To Actor By First Name
Posted: 4/21/19 at 11:26pm
yankeefan7 said: "" what is this the 1950s? LOL way to give away your age there"
Yes I am old and darn proud of it - lol."
Do you get massively offended when women in the summer wear open toed shoes and dresses without pantyhose?
dramamama611
Broadway Legend Joined: 12/4/07
#16Refer To Actor By First Name
Posted: 4/21/19 at 11:36pm
I think 2 different things are being mentioned: ONLY referring to some one by a singular and identifiable first name only and using a first name in a casual sense after id has been established.
If the op meant the 2nd circumstance, i stand by my opinion....discussion boards are no different then having a casual conversation. Nothing wrong with famiarity amongst "us". Yes, in publications, it is certainly different. In talking to my friends, I'm never going to refer to Patrick Page as Mr. Page. If I were writing a review that was going to be published, I would.
We are not a professional setting here.
If we're not having fun, then why are we doing it?
These are DISCUSSION boards, not mutual admiration boards. Discussion only occurs when we are willing to hear what others are thinking, regardless of whether it is alignment to our own thoughts.
#17Refer To Actor By First Name
Posted: 4/21/19 at 11:59pm
yankeefan7 said: "One small gripe I have is when people refer to actors (mostly female) in threads by their first name only. Since most of us on this board do not know these actors, I think it is proper to refer to them by either their full name or have title in name (exp. Ms Osnes). I believe when you read any critical review you will see title next to the name ofthe actor.Maybe I am just being picky, but IMO I think it is also a matter of respect."
Thank you! Except for a few one-name performers (Cher, Orfeh, Tiny Tim), calling a celebrity by his/her first name is presumptuous and confusing. Since I first encountered the practice in the 1970s, I have thought it nothing better than an attempt to make the speaker sound closer to the celebrity than s/he usually is. It's a slightly more sophisticated form of "dropping names".
Of course, everyone here is free to do as s/he pleases, but myself, I only use first names when I have personally called that celebrity by his or her first name in real life. So for me, it's "Angela" for Lansbury and "Betty" for Bacall and "Yul" for Brynner, but Miss Merman and Miss Martin, however well the latter two are known. (The use of "Miss" with a female star's last name is a longstanding tradition that I still find charming. "Ms." will do just as well, however.)
But, yeah, some posts are unreadable--especially those relating to recent Broadway principals--because the torrent of first names are indecipherable to me. I try to be careful about that even when I have known a celebrity and would normally use his or her first name.
#18Refer To Actor By First Name
Posted: 4/22/19 at 12:01am
dramamama611 said: "I think thats a VERY old fashioned notion. Especially when talking amongst ourselves. Long gone are the days of being so formal.
They're actors, not the Pope."
Again, I'm not trying to dictate what you do, Dmama, but I follow the same convention with anyone, not just celebrities. I do so in person (until the other person invites me to call him or her by his or her first name) and I do so in conversation and when posting.
***
ETA now that I've read the entire thread. I agree that social media is a special circumstance. If one regularly addresses a celebrity by his or her first name on FB or Instagram, then, sure, use that celebrity's first name when posting. Why not?
But remember: if you type "Laura", I think, "Osnes or Linney?".
#19Refer To Actor By First Name
Posted: 4/22/19 at 12:08am
I’ve never met Bernadette. Or Marin. Or Patti. Or Donna. Or Bette. But it’s easier to type one name than two. Are we going a bit over the top with the perceived motivations (e.g., self-deceived closeness) or impact?
"You can't overrate Bernadette Peters. She is such a genius. There's a moment in "Too Many Mornings" and Bernadette doing 'I wore green the last time' - It's a voice that is just already given up - it is so sorrowful. Tragic. You can see from that moment the show is going to be headed into such dark territory and it hinges on this tiny throwaway moment of the voice." - Ben Brantley (2022)
"Bernadette's whole, stunning performance [as Rose in Gypsy] galvanized the actors capable of letting loose with her. Bernadette's Rose did take its rightful place, but too late, and unseen by too many who should have seen it" Arthur Laurents (2009)
"Sondheim's own favorite star performances? [Bernadette] Peters in ''Sunday in the Park,'' Lansbury in ''Sweeney Todd'' and ''obviously, Ethel was thrilling in 'Gypsy.'' Nytimes, 2000
#20Refer To Actor By First Name
Posted: 4/22/19 at 12:17am
qolbinau said: "I’ve never met Bernadette. Or Marin. Or Patti. Or Donna. Or Bette. But it’s easier to type one name than two. Are we going a bit over the top with the perceived motivations (e.g., self-deceived closeness) or impact?
"
No, we're not. Referring to celebrities by their first names is akin to obsession with stage dooring. (Look at all the posts here where someone says his trip to the theater was ruined because so-and-so didn't sign his Playbill.)
Celebrity is the "magic" or "superpower" of our contemporary era and referring to Miss Peters as merely "Bernadette" is often an attempt to claim some of that magic for one's self.
As for the simplicity argument, it's actually fewer keystrokes to refer to "Bernadette Peters" the first time and then simply "Peters" thereafter. The argument here isn't that one must use "Miss" or "Ms.", but that use of the first name by itself is often an attempt to sound closer to the star or more an insider than one actually is.
dramamama611
Broadway Legend Joined: 12/4/07
#21Refer To Actor By First Name
Posted: 4/22/19 at 12:26am
To be fair, now that I think about it, I really don't know how I refer to actors here. After the initial ID of whom I'm referring, I likely only use pronouns and last names (sans Mr/Ms.)
Regardless, as long as I know who is being spoken of, I dont really care what others choose to do.
If we're not having fun, then why are we doing it?
These are DISCUSSION boards, not mutual admiration boards. Discussion only occurs when we are willing to hear what others are thinking, regardless of whether it is alignment to our own thoughts.
#22Refer To Actor By First Name
Posted: 4/22/19 at 12:34am
dramamama611 said: "To be fair, now that I think about it, I really don't know how I refer to actors here. After the initial ID of whom I'm referring, I likely only use pronouns and last names (sans Mr/Ms.)
Regardless, as long as I know who is being spoken of, I dont really care what others choose to do.
"
Dmama, I edited my previous post a little to qualify my arguments so they are directed at "most" (not "all) usages and "most" (not all) users. I'm sure some have just picked up what appears to be the dominant custom.
As a fan of your posts, I think you are quite clear as to whom and what you know personally and whom and what you know via reputation or reading. And I think that's an important distinction for all of us.
dramamama611
Broadway Legend Joined: 12/4/07
#23Refer To Actor By First Name
Posted: 4/22/19 at 12:42am
Thank you...I hope my writing is usually clear.
I hadnt taken any writings here on any sort of personal level, so no worries.
And to whomever commented on the severity of some of the reactions- ageism is always alive here on BWW.
If we're not having fun, then why are we doing it?
These are DISCUSSION boards, not mutual admiration boards. Discussion only occurs when we are willing to hear what others are thinking, regardless of whether it is alignment to our own thoughts.
#24Refer To Actor By First Name
Posted: 4/22/19 at 12:56am
dramamama611 said: "Thank you...I hope my writing is usually clear.
I hadnt taken any writings here on any sort of personal level, so no worries.
And to whomever commented on the severity of some of the reactions- ageism is always alive here on BWW."
Yeah, I thought the accusations that some of us are "old-fashioned" were quaint. It's true my opinions on this subject were formed in the 1970s, but only because people were already referring to "Liza", "Gwen" and "Chita" in ways I found uncomfortably familiar for a speaker who hadn't met the object of his reference.
Theatrefanboy1
Broadway Legend Joined: 8/2/15
#25Refer To Actor By First Name
Posted: 4/22/19 at 8:03amIt’s interesting because I have noticed that when I’ve met some I’ve thanked them or spoke to them as ms Peters, Ms Lupon, Ms. Osnes, ms. Lansbury, mr Jackson, but I have also caught myself thanking some as just charlie (Williams) or Ryan (Steele) Kyle dean (Massey) which my no means do I think we are on a first name basis. I don’t know.
