Dove Cameron in The Light in the Piazza... ?

[MlleDaae]

Posted: 3/22/19 at 6:45pm

LA Opera has cast Dove Cameron as Clara along side the goddess that is Renée Fleming. Okay. I have questions...

Can anyone tell me if Dove is a legit soprano? Saw her in Mamma Mia at the Bowl. That role suited her very well, but this one... this show is very different. Adam Guettel's beautiful operetta has such a graceful flow to it that I can't help but get bel canto vibes every time I listen.

That being said, I'm worried Clara's style of signing will be altered towards a more pop/belt vocal. I understand companies need to bring in ticket sales and gobs of money. Dove is a Disney actress with 22 million followers on Instagram. I get it. It's just... *caution: rant ahead* ...can we please, PLEASE leave one g*$%@n f*@%king musical with legit singing alone!!?? Just one. Phantom is now cast for pop voices (it takes place in a f*@%king opera house) and now I'm hearing talk of Spielberg's West Side Story going pop as well. The latter isn't surprising since it's a film. But, still... I... I cry.

Hopefully, she'll surprise us with a hidden, bomb ass lyric soprano. Until then... my heart shall lie in wait.

(...and, I swear to the internet gods, if someone so much as hints at the comment "..but she's had opera training since she was a child" I will virtually punch you in the face because that isn't possible, nor is it a thing. Please do your research.)

Updated On: 7/12/19 at 06:45 PM

[natashalost]

Posted: 3/22/19 at 6:49pm

https://www.instagram.com/p/BvPUBAhniIU/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=sgdg51qy6hym

^ The only hint we’ve had so far of her singing. She’s not terrible, but she’s no Kelli O’Hara.

Updated On: 3/22/19 at 06:49 PM

[MlleDaae]

Posted: 3/22/19 at 6:53pm

So... Clara a la Ariana Grande style?? *le sigh*

Updated On: 7/12/19 at 06:53 PM

[JBroadway]

Posted: 3/22/19 at 6:53pm

Having seen her in Clueless, I’m less concerned with her singing and more worried about her acting. But why should I be worried? I’m not going to see it. Buyer beware!

[SomethingPeculiar]

Posted: 3/22/19 at 7:08pm

I'm honestly more optimistic about Dove's performance than I am about Renee's, who we've seen try to act. Margaret doesn't need that "much" of a voice, I would much rather see someone act the heck out of it. But I can't stand Renee's vocal inflections (is that the right word?) when she's singing non-opera pieces.

[latitudex1]

Posted: 3/23/19 at 2:22am

Keep in mind that Celia Keenan-Bolger, who is also a belter, originated the role in the out-of-town tryouts. They were obviously going to someone a bit more "on the nose," but the score wasn't written for this Bel Canto style soprano. Kelli O'Hara herself pulled her technique back a bit seemingly.

[AADA81]

Posted: 3/23/19 at 5:06am

In the snippet on Instagram, Cameron does have a bit of that 'pop-crooning' thing going on, which is wrong for the part, but with the right vocal coaching she'd be fine.  She walked away with her scenes in "Hairspray Live' among far more experienced people so she can act.  I give her credit for trying to stretch her talents.  Doing 'Light in the Piazza' eight times a week in front of an audience is very different from working inside the Disney bubble.

[binau]

Posted: 3/23/19 at 5:20am

SomethingPeculiar said: "I'm honestly more optimistic about Dove's performance than I am about Renee's, who we've seen try to act. Margaret doesn't need that "much" of a voice, I would much rather see someone act the heck out of it. But I can't stand Renee's vocal inflections (is that the right word?) when she's singing non-opera pieces."

Have you heard her studio recording of "Fable?" What do you think? 

[BrodyFosse123]

Posted: 3/23/19 at 10:46am

AADA81 said: "In thesnippet on Instagram, Camerondoes have a bit of that 'pop-crooning' thing going on, which is wrong for the part, but with the right vocal coaching she'd be fine. She walked away with her scenes in "Hairspray Live' among far more experienced people so she can act. I give her credit for trying to stretch her talents. Doing 'Light in the Piazza' eight times aweek in front of an audience is very different from working inside the Disney bubble."

Dove’s “pop crooning” could just be her comfort area but she understands musical theater singing and it’s technique.  Vocalists understand the form.   Even Lady Gaga knows how to suit her vocals to the musical genre she’s singing.  Her work with Tony Bennett stands on its own in the standards genre.  

Vanessa Williams (and even Debbie Gibson) who admit that their vocal comfort zone is musical theater use a different vocal for their pop recordings.  In their words: in musical theater you honor the score — you don’t embellish.  On your pop recordings — embelllish and riff to your heart’s desire.  That sh**t don’t fly in musical theater.  

 

[SomethingPeculiar]

Posted: 3/23/19 at 11:17am

qolbinau said: "Have you heard her studio recording of "Fable?" What do you think?"

I have! I think it's one of the more successful tracks on that Broadway album, but I still don't love her voice singing (oversinging?) musical theatre pieces. Give me Audra or Rebecca Luker or Kelli O'Hara or Victoria Clark or the late Marin Mazzie doing soprano MT roles over Renee any day.

[ggersten]

Posted: 3/23/19 at 11:21am

SomethingPeculiar said: "Give me Audra or Rebecca Luker or Kelli O'Hara or Victoria Clark or the late Marin Mazziedoing soprano MT roles over Renee any day."

It's Laura Benanti's "Soprano Island" where they sit around and sign "Glitter and Be Gay" all day.  

 

[MlleDaae]

Posted: 3/23/19 at 3:23pm

latitudex1 said: "Keep in mind that Celia Keenan-Bolger, who is also a belter, originated the role in the out-of-town tryouts. They were obviously going to someone a bit more "on the nose," but the score wasn't written for this Bel Canto style soprano. Kelli O'Hara herself pulled her technique back a bit seemingly."

I wouldn't classify Celia as a belter, though she obviously has the range and can. Based on her performance as Johanna in Sweeney and seeing her in the Chicago previews of LITP, I have to say I love, LOVE the resonance she has. You can even hear it in the cast recording of 25th APCSB in "The I Love You Song". It's as Broadway as it gets, yet she still has that round, bright, bell sound I love in a soprano.

I'd have to disagree with you on the intention of the LITP score. Multiple interviews, Guettel has spoken about capturing the essence of Italy, and though the definition of "Bel Canto" seems to be all over the place as of late, I truly feel it in the music. Replace the English with Italian, and I believe it would be more evident. 

When you say Kelli pulled her technique back, while I understand what you mean, it's not what she's doing. You never drop technique, but she definitely made character choices to make her character appear more child like mentally.

Side note: hi, latitudex1 :) ...are we the oldest "joined" members on here? *lol* Judging by your username, are you a programmer? ::w00t::


 

Updated On: 7/12/19 at 03:23 PM

[massofmen]

Posted: 3/23/19 at 5:14pm

Or you can listen to this and realize how horrible of an actress Renee Fleming is and how amazing Vicky clark was in comparison.
Just listen to the phrasing and how Renee has no idea how to act. Its amazing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2mfDOFKKJU

[EllieRose2]

Posted: 3/23/19 at 6:07pm

Renee has a heavenly voice, but she is not an actress.  She stood out in Carousel last year, her singing was gorgeous but couldn't make up for her dismal acting.  I am surprised she is getting hired for additional acting roles. 

[Wee Thomas2]

Posted: 3/25/19 at 6:41am

No, no, 100 times no.

 

Cameron was the worst part of a bad Clueless.  Not a single good thing to say about her unless you are casting Barbie:  The Wax Figure

 

Fleming at least has comic timing.  Saw her at WTF in Living on Love, which was a dreadful play, but she at least belonged on the stage.

[John Adams]

Posted: 3/25/19 at 9:54am

SomethingPeculiar said: "but I still don't love her voice singing (oversinging?) musical theatre pieces. "

IMO, she doesn't oversing. To my ear, there's a difference in the focus of singing style between Opera and Musical Theater and she's utilizing the Operatic style. (Sorry, MlleDaae but that IS a thing.)

In Opera, the focus is on melodic lines and phrases. The music comes first, over lyrics or characterization. You (or, I should say I) can hear that in operatic singers when they try to cross over to musical theater.

The vowels are always very clean and pure (classical vocal teachers describe this as singing on the vowel), and phrasing is enacted to create the most beautiful/interesting melodic lines. To my ear, the melodic lines and phrases ALWAYS sound gorgeous in Opera, but it's at the expense of lyrics and characterization (especially when singing in a b@stard language like English). The techniques that create the most beautiful vowels and dynamic line, for the sake of melody, can distort the words being sung. 

An extreme example is attempting to sing the word, "can't". An Opera singer wouldn't sing that nasally, bright, short /a/ vowel. They would modify the vowel into something less harsh. You would still understand the word, but you have to listen just a little bit harder to "translate".

Also, I don't hear Fleming even attempting the Southern accent that Clark and O'Hara brought to their roles. She's utilizing the technique she knows best. I wouldn't say that she's a bad actress, so much as that she's limited to a single vocal style that she's extremely successful in.

Singers like Kristin Chenoweth and Kelli O'Hara are more versatile singer/actresses and can successfully move between both styles. 

[EmeraldOzian]

Posted: 3/25/19 at 10:09am

I think she can hit the note no problem.

 

https://youtu.be/mnqFaj4SPK4

[AADA81]

Posted: 3/27/19 at 12:39pm

BrodyFosse123 said: "AADA81 said: "In thesnippet on Instagram, Camerondoes have a bit of that 'pop-crooning' thing going on, which is wrong for the part, but with the right vocal coaching she'd be fine. She walked away with her scenes in "Hairspray Live' among far more experienced people so she can act. I give her credit for trying to stretch her talents. Doing 'Light in the Piazza' eight times aweek in front of an audience is very different from working inside the Disney bubble."

Dove’s “pop crooning” could just be her comfort area but she understands musical theater singing and it’s technique. Vocalistsunderstand the form. Even Lady Gaga knows how to suit her vocals to the musical genre she’s singing. Her work with Tony Bennett stands on its own in the standards genre.

Vanessa Williams (and even Debbie Gibson) who admit that their vocal comfort zone is musical theater use a different vocal for their pop recordings. In their words: in musical theater you honor the score — you don’t embellish. On your pop recordings — embelllish and riff to your heart’s desire. That sh**t don’t fly in musical theater.
 

Actually, I think Vanessa William's vocals on the cast album for the 2002 'Into the Woods' revival sounds a lot like 'pop crooning'.  She slides into notes and stylizes her singing in a way that's wrong for the character.

 

[MlleDaae]

Posted: 4/1/19 at 6:33pm

John Adams - I said opera training as a child is NOT a thing. Which quote are you referring to?

massofmen - You make absolutely no sense. "Listening" to someone act?? You're comparing Victoria Clark's overly characterized Broadway soundtrack to Renée Fleming's LA Opera audio teaser and making a statement about her acting? *lol* Mmmmmk...

EmeraldOzian - It's not about Dove "hitting the note". Also, the clip you provided shows her using her throat to scream out a note. Much like what people do when imitating opera. That isn't opera singing. Side note: cool user name

I'm noticing the divide here... very few people seem to understand opera and what it takes to produce those sounds and sustain them. It isn't musical theatre. The show is at the LAOpera, not the Pantages. Also, there's a reason why more and more Broadway performers are having to undergo surgery even though the shows they're in are mic-ed. If Dove doesn't have the training, I assume they'll probably mic her which makes me kinda cry.

To everyone else commenting on Renée in general... please educate yourselves with this AMAZING interview:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncyG38c2tSw

Honestly, this is one of the best interviews I've seen in regards to opera and musical theatre. So, grab some

popcorn and enjoy.


 

Updated On: 7/12/19 at 06:33 PM

[binau]

Posted: 6/14/19 at 7:13am

This looks like it is about to bomb financially in the West End. I wonder if it will have any impact on the LA production? I’m not really sure if they are the same production and creative team. I assume so?

Updated On: 6/14/19 at 07:13 AM

[kdogg36]

Posted: 6/14/19 at 9:24am

I don't see anything on this thread, but it was announced a while back that it will also be coming to Chicago in December.

[QueenAlice]

Posted: 6/14/19 at 9:49am

qolbinau said: "This looks like it is about to bomb financiallyin the West End. I wonder if it will have any impact on the LA production? I’m not really sure if they are the same production and creative team. I assume so?"

Well the LA production is at the LA Opera. So it's not a commercial production; I don't see how ticket sales in the West End would impact it. They are likely importing the stars and the the physical production. Even if it closed in two days in London, nothing would change that.

 

[imeldasturn]

Posted: 6/14/19 at 9:58pm

I love Piazza very much, so last night I went with all the concerns we have been expressing on here since it was announced. The original Broadway actors and their replacements were cast in heaven, and I don't think they'll ever be surpassed, so there is little point in dwelling in comparisons. That said, it's a very fine production and Renée can indeed act and Dove can indeed sing.

Renée is more of a tragic actress than a comedian, some punchlines get lost and some jokes don't land, but the poignant scenes when she discusses her marriage or her daughter are very moving. And she's very charming on stage, very elegant and beautiful. Dove has a pretty little voice, no one can accuse her of being the next Kelli O'Hara, but she sings it nicely and acts the part well. She doesn't have the technical skills to sustain this kind of singing for 8 shows a week for months of performances, but for a run as short as this she should be fine.
 

The rest of the cast is also very fine, especially Rob, Celinde and Alex Jennings. Lovely set, costumes and great great great orchestra, that makes the show really soar. I'm moving back to Milan on Wednesday so I don't think I'll see it again, which I regret: acting and singing are in fine shape, but there were also a few previewesque issues like props-dropping and line-forgetting. I really recommend it!

BTW, they probably went even a bit too far with costumes. Renée pretty much changes one for every scene, and some times it's just weird. Towards the end of act 2, when she discovers that her daughter has fled she runs after her, but she nevertheless finds the time to get changed before finding her. No shade, this is probably the kind of parent I'd be, but still...

[imeldasturn]

Posted: 6/15/19 at 11:27am

I stand corrected, Dove is already missing today's matinee